The Oracle

The Wiccan Rede

Bide ye Wiccan laws ye must,
in perfect love and perfect trust.
Live and let live, fairly take and fairly give.
Form the circle thrice about, to keep all evil spirits out.

To bind ye spell every time, let ye spell be spake in rhyme.
Soft of eye, light of touch, speak ye little, listen much.
Deosil go by the waxing moon, singing out ye Witches’ Rune.
Widdershins go by the waning moon, chanting out ye Baneful Rune.

When the Lady’s moon is new, kiss your hand to her times two.
When the moon rides at her peak, then ye heart’s desire seek.
Heed the North wind’s mighty gale, lock the door and trim the sail.
When the wind comes from the South, love will kiss thee on the mouth.

When the wind blows from the West, departed souls may have no rest.
When the wind blows from the East, except the new and set the feast.
Nine woods in ye cauldron go, burn them fast and burn them slow.
Elder be ye Lady’s tree, burn it not or cursed ye’ll be.

When the wheel begins to turn, soon ye Beltaine fire’ll burn.
When the wheel hath turned to Yule, light the log the Horned One rules.
Heed ye flower, bush and tree, by the Lady blessed be.
Where the rippling waters flow, cast a stone and truth ye’ll know.

When ye have and hold a need, harken not to others greed.
With a fool no season spend, nor be counted as his friend.
Merry meet and merry part, bright the cheeks and warm the heart.
Mind ye threefold law ye should, three times bad and three times good.

When misfortune is anow, wear the blue star upon thy brow.
True in love ye must ever be, lest thy love be false to thee.
In these eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill,

‘An ye harm none, do what ye will.

Taken from the 'Encyclopedia of Wicca & Witchcraft' - By Raven Grimassi

A note for those who are interested, the first draft of the Wiccan Rede was not written by Doreen Valiente as many would believe. Infact it was first published in Green Egg magazine issue 69. The actual author was a Lady Gwen who is believe to be Lady Gwynne Thompson. Lady Gwynne Thompson was a teacher at the New Engloand Coven of Traditionists Witches otherwise known as the NECTW.

You can find a lot of information on this wonderful woman who sadly is no longer with us. There are obviously hundreds of different versions that exist out there, and whether or not she was the first one to write it isn't really important. Lady Gwynne was the first to put it out there for all to see, so you can either believe she wrote it or not, but the matter is she educated a great many either way.

For that I have to give her thanks, because whether you are a Wiccan or not, you can respect the morals fibre that exists within the rede.

Lady Gwen Thompson (actually Phyllis Thompson) did not write the Rede. It was first accredited to Adriana Porter, who supposedly passed it onto Gwen before her death. This is impossible, as Porter died in 1946 - nearly a whole 10 years before Gardner founded Wicca.

The ONLY "evidence" that we have to believe that Porter wrote the original Wiccan Rede is that Gwen said, and who isn't going to believe her, as it is only her word that we have. I mean, we can't exactly ask Porter herself!

What evidence is there that Porter didn't write it? Well, concepts mentioned in the Rede were not known to have existed in her life time. Also, in some areas, she has incorrectly used language to try and create and authenticity - incorrectly using the word "An'" etc.

A speech given by Doreen Valiente on October 3rd, 1964 first mentions the Rede in its 8 word form. No one knows if Gwen attended this meeting (the meeting of the Witchcraft Research Association), but this is the most believable and creditable. Gwen died in 1986; 22 years after Valiente gave her speech. Gwen's/Adriana's version comes out in 1975 - 9 years after Valiente gave her speech. This gives a whole 9 years to use Valiente's speech. In 1946, Adriana dies - 18 years before Valiente gives her speech.

BUT . . . . just because Gwen says Adriana wrote it doesn't mean she did. Just because Valiente said she wrote is doesn't mean she did.

In my opinion, there is a lot more information to point to Valiente writing the Rede with more credibility and believability than Porter/Thompson, and therefore I have personally come to the conclusion that Valiente wrote the Wiccan Rede in its short form first, and then merged with her Witches' Creed to make the long version of the Wiccan Rede we have now.

Wiccans and Scholars will debate to the end of time who wrote the Rede, but the bottom line is that we will never know who wrote is 100%. I think instead of concentrating on who wrote it, we should be concentrating on what it tells us, and all the information it gives us.

Sorry its such as long post, and thank you everyone who reads is fully!

For much more information about the Wiccan Rede, click here.

Sources

http://waningmoon.com/ethics/rede.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiccan_Rede
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Gwen_Thompson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adriana_Porter

Glenn

* Edited for broken link!

An interesting arguement, but I have to throw the same spin on things. There is little evidence in general to support any one single persons claim to writing the rede. Doreen may well have done it considering she famously told Gerald how to write a BOS lol.

Doreen Valiente also never took credit for the creation of the rede, which strongly suggests that she had heard it from a second hand source. The problem with Wicca is much of its teachings are based heavily in traditional witchcraft. If that is so it was a word and mouth tradition for the most part and this means that the rede could be anything from a poem uttered at a circle to a formal set of rules handed down through generations.

Personally I don't pay much heed to who actually wrote it and who claimed the fame. The rede has formed the corner stone to helping Wiccan's find a path for themselves while also providing a very useful way of explaining to people that it is not a harmful faith.

Cadno ap annwn wrote:There is little evidence in general to support any one single persons claim to writing the rede.

I believe that there is little evidence that Porter writ the Rede, but I do believe that there is evidence that more than one person writ the full version of what we now call The Wiccan Rede. As I've previously said, concepts mentioned in what Gwen claims to be Porter's version are known not to have existed before Gardner and the like - I mean the word Wicca is a modern usage, although the word itself may not be.

Cadno ap annwn wrote:Doreen may well have done it considering she famously told Gerald how to write a BOS lol.

She did, yes, because Gerald Gardner was known not to give 'credit' where credit was due, and a lot of his BoS contradicted itself. She helped him rewrite it (today known as the Gardnerian Book of Shadows), and rewrite more poetically.

Cadno ap annwn wrote:Doreen Valiente also never took credit for the creation of the rede, which strongly suggests that she had heard it from a second hand source.

She may not have, because if she did help Gardner rewrite his Book, then she would have also rewritten this. But the fact is the version we have today is the version that is most attributed to Valiente and Gardner.

Cadno ap annwn wrote:The problem with Wicca is much of its teachings are based heavily in traditional witchcraft. If that is so it was a word and mouth tradition for the most part and this means that the rede could be anything from a poem uttered at a circle to a formal set of rules handed down through generations.

"Traditional" Witchcraft. As you implied, most Pagans and magic practising people would not have been able to read and / or write, and most of their rites would have been word and mouth, and somewhere along along the lines, bits of information (amounting to large chunks) would have been misplaced / misheard, so the rites we practise now could be interpreted as not really that old. What we practise today as Pagans is far to influenced by religion, and not even close to how our ancestors practised - we only know little fragments of how they practised from things like cave paintings etc. This is the reason why Gardner's Book had to be rewritten.

Cadno ap annwn wrote:Personally I don't pay much heed to who actually wrote it and who claimed the fame. The rede has formed the corner stone to helping Wiccan's find a path for themselves while also providing a very useful way of explaining to people that it is not a harmful faith.

I agree. Whereas it's nice to say "Yup, Valiente/Porter most 100% DID write the Rede," but we know this will never happen. And all that aside, the Rede offers a lot of information to both Wiccans and Pagans, and also helps explain to beginners / 'outsiders' what Wicca (and if it can be pushed - Paganism) actually "is."

Glenn

The problem with this argument is, nowadays, it will probably never be proven who wrote the Rede.

But does it matter?

Whoever wrote it, in whatever format, had a great idea and wrote something that so many people can live by and believe in. And even if someone doesn't live by it, it's still a beautiful piece of poetry.

I think so many people give credit to certain individuals, when its possible they didnt write it. So lets just accept it'll never be agreed on, and enjoy the work as it is

Ok, I'll go and sulk now

Just kidding, I love a good debate because it gets to the raw idea of things. I completely agree that it really doesn't matter as it may never be proven. If I'm honest I'd like to believe deep down that the rede was written by a group of people who shared ideas and let them out into the wider world.

Anaiya wrote:The problem with this argument is, nowadays, it will probably never be proven who wrote the Rede.

Yeah. We can not say for 100% who wrote it.

Anaiya wrote:But does it matter?

Others would say most definitely. Others some what no. I'm with the first. The finding out the actual date of when the Rede was written would either make or break Gardner's claims; if what he claims is true (that he discovered a Coven in the New Forest, and he was indeed initiated into it, and that Wicca is a surviving underground religious practice stemming from European Witchcraft practises), then the Rede could indeed be older than the 1950s. If what he claims is untrue (the Coven thing and European Witchcraft thing), then there is no way the Rede could be older than the 1950s. Seeing as this text was a one of it's kind back in the day, and one of the first things to go public containing so much detail of Wiccan practise, is holds a lot of stipulation and questions, which will probably never be answered (unless we organise a massive séance, ha!).

Anaiya wrote:Whoever wrote it, in whatever format, had a great idea and wrote something that so many people can live by and believe in. And even if someone doesn't live by it, it's still a beautiful piece of poetry.

Exactly - contained within the Rede are great morals, both to live by and for Wiccans. It contains a lot of information for Cowans (non-initiated people or non-Wiccans), and it's correct. That’s the main thing - its correct. Most of what teenagers and older adults will read is probably not what Wicca is about, or they'll read one Wiccan book and think they know it all.

Anaiya wrote:I think so many people give credit to certain individuals, when its possible they didn’t write it.

Its possible that Valiente didn't write it. But its more believable that she did than Porter did. Its possible Porter did write it, but its more possible/believable that she didn't. I mean, we've been told by Peter (who’s confirmed with another Witch in England) that its 90%+ probably written by Valiente.

We'll never know who wrote it 100%, but texts like these are the foundations of Wiccan practise (along with those such as The Charge, and The Rune), and for that reason we need to get as much correct as possible (seeing a Gardner wasn't a very good 'book-keeper').

Glenn

Cadno ap annwn wrote:If I'm honest I'd like to believe deep down that the rede was written by a group of people who shared ideas and let them out into the wider world.

Yes, I believe that is what they did.

Gardner's first version of the Rede was influenced a lot by Crowley, and Valiente took most of these aspects away, saying that they were'nt needed, and did not reflect true Wiccan practise/belief.

The Full Rede which we have today is just that - Valiente's expansion.

Glenn

I think I am edging toward Porter who wrote it but when Valiante went through Gardners book of shadows re-writting things etc, I believe the Rede was a part of this and was edited to rhyme and make a bit more sence... This way Porter and Valiante both had input in the Rede we follow today

there... Everyone wins lol

Thoron wrote:I think I am edging toward Porter who wrote it but when Valiante went through Gardners book of shadows re-writting things etc, I believe the Rede was a part of this and was edited to rhyme and make a bit more sence... This way Porter and Valiante both had input in the Rede we follow today

there... Everyone wins lol

In 1975 Gwen Thompson published The Rede of the Wiccae, a couplet poem that ended with the Wiccan Rede tenant of "Harming None," which was an influence from Crowley's "And do what thou wilt shall be the whole law." Gwen attributes the poem to Adriana Porter, her grandmother. There's no evidence to suggest the Rede of the Wiccae wasn't invented by Thompson or her coven, but the Wiccan Rede predates the Rede of the Wiccae - just look at all the evidence above for this - concepts used in Porter's Rede of the Wiccae DID NOT EXIST before Valiente published her speech in the Witchcraft Research Association.

The whole re-writing of Gardner's BoS was because there was A LOT of stuff Gardner put into it influenced by Crowley, and Valiente said "no matter how beautiful the words, they have no place in the Craft of the Wise." (See Valiente's Rebirth of Witchcraft). Gardner's answer was simply "OK, if you think you can do better, go ahead" (see Rebirth of Witchcraft). So she did, and with that she cut out most of Crowley's work, but keeping in a few things, which she thought was suitable, such as "Keep pure your highest ideals" and "I need not sacrifice."

So if ANYONE should be accredited to The Wiccan Rede, it SHOULD be Gardner and Crowley. Yes, I do believe the Rede was around before Valiente joined his Coven, and like all Gardnerians will tell you also, she re-wrote practically everything. When she re-wrote it, she took a lot of stuff away, and added a lot of new stuff - she created a new version, such as this version, making it hers. The main idea was the one Gardner had.

Porter died in 1946 - nearly a whole 10 years before Wicca was even though about! The WICCAN Rede - it refers to Wicca, which came about around 1952.

This is from another source,

"Scholars and Wiccans alike cannot seem to agree on the original date of either the short or the long rede. Thompson's attribution of the latter to her grandmother has been disputed, since Adriana Porter died in 1946, well before Gardner published The Old Laws, and no evidence for Porter's authorship exists other than Thompson's word. The poem refers to Wiccan concepts that, though ostensibly very old, have not been proven to pre-date the 1940s. Its attribution to Porter may have formed part of Thompson's claim to be an hereditary witch. Its precise origin has yet to be determined.

Adrian Bott, in an article written in White Dragon magazine, 2003, argues that its creation can be placed somewhere between 1964 and 1975. Bott bases his argument on the alleged misuse of archaic English in the poem, in particular of " an' " as an abbreviation of "and", and of "ye" instead of "the". Bott states that the author of the poem was evidently unaware that this contraction of "and" is not an archaic, but a modern convention. According to Bott, in the "eight words" couplet originally cited by Valiente, "an" is used correctly, in the Middle English sense of " 'in the event that', or simply 'if' " (as in the Shakespearean "an hadst thou not come to my bed") and thus has no apostrophe. In the poem, this has been transformed into an abbreviated "and" and given an apostrophe, with every "and" in the poem's additional lines then being written " an' " as if to match. Accordingly, Bott concludes that the poem was an attempt to expand Valiente's couplet into a full Wiccan credo, written by someone who misunderstood the archaic language they attempted to imitate. However Bott ignores the fact that printing " an' " in the archaic sense with an apostrophe was a publishing convention from the late 19th century and that "an" as a straight abbreviation of "and" is also to be found in Shakespeare."

The Wiccan Rede, as we know and love it, came into being a few years after Gardner founded The New Forest Coven, and can therefore not be any older than Wicca itself. I'm not quite sure why people try and keep acredting it to Porter, trying to make it older than it actually is, in a way trying to prove Wicca's existence before Gardner - it's all just a Witch hunt (no pun intended).

We will NEVER know for 100% if Porter or Valiente wrote it, but I believe 100% Valiente wrote it - there is too much evidence to say she did, and contrast to the only evidence Porter wrote it is Gwen saying "Yes, she wrote it."

Glenn

* Edited for typos

But why does it matter?? If something cannot be proven, and will NEVER be proven, then can't we just love the Rede for the words and for its morals, and stop worrying about the individual, or groups, who wrote it. Too much time is invested in debating who wrote what, when we'll probably never know, and wasting our time, when we could be enjoying the actual Rede itself.

I don't really care who wrote it, I just think it's great, as it is

Yeah, we will never know who actually wrote it, some can believe 100% that doreen wrote it and some can be 100% certain Porter wrote it or anyone else but we will never know so whatever you believe is right TO YOU!